Jon Lee Brody - Interview Transcript

Masami Moriya: [00:00:00] Oh, right on, man. Well, again, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, taking some time. I know it’s been some weeks since we actually tried to get this going, but it’s good to have him in.

Jon Lee Brody: Yeah, bro. That’s I would say it’s almost like a long time coming, you know? And and like I was telling you before we started recording, I listened to it.

Every time you have a new episode and learning something new about people I’ve heard of or learning about people, I may not have heard of maybe not familiar with. And it’s, it’s so cool to know that there some real bad-ass Asian artists out there and people better be on alert.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. We’re super on the rise and it just feels.

I don’t know, there’s a lot more conversation and more in-depth in the, the network of people that you start to meet and hear about it, start to grow, and then you see their work and it’s really impressive. So it’s like, okay, so we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re killing it. We just got to be with each other and no,

Jon Lee Brody: absolutely.

We just got to keep on doing it and that’s the thing, do it together, you know that that’s really going to be the key to this whole [00:01:00] thing, but you’re, you’re, you’re a big part component of that though, man. Like what you’re doing here, this is really good. Shit. I got, I, I need to start out the podcast by saying that you need to know that because I love the name of it.

And you know, just, just to jump right in when we’ve had our first conversation, one of our first conversations, rather we pointed out that Netflix had the strong black lead handle, but nobody had the strong Asian lead handle, which you took and took ownership of. And I actually love that. I mean, it would have been nice a Netflix or a big studio did that, but the fact that you and Asian.

Doing your thing, you took that and like took the reigns and like took the initiative. That’s what it’s fucking all about, man. So kudos to you on that.

Masami Moriya: Thanks. Yeah. I’m actually still surprised. Nothing still has really happened. So

Jon Lee Brody: it’s just time my friend give it time. It’s not even for us. It’s

Masami Moriya: just like other people like, like this, she was like, you would think that they were to have some other big programs, but haven’t seen anything yet.

So I’m looking forward to when that happens, but we’ll see. But yeah, right on man, like no, [00:02:00] I first off, like, how are you doing in the pandemic staff? Like granolas, Delta, variants, and covenants. I just want to get quick out of their way. I want to chat. Like, you know, you’re a filmmaker, you’re doing stuff.

How do you feel about like this wildness? Just uncertainty

Jon Lee Brody: forever. It, it, you know, it’s fucking crazy. I mean, if I’m going to just put it really simply, I never really took my foot off the gas pedal. I never stopped wearing the mask. I just, you know, until I really know that. Jaws has really left the water.

I’m still gonna keep my guard up, you know, so not much has changed for me, you know, I’m still only really kind of with the people I know. And like, you know, if I’m going to go do outdoor dining, I’m still being very careful about it, just because you know, it just comes down to, it’s not only about our safety, that is a big part of it, but it’s about others around you too.

So, you know, it’ll be interesting, man, because I feel like last year when people were doing stuff for networks and studios and still doing film projects, it was with a mindset of, well, this is just for now, but now that it [00:03:00] looks like that’s going to continue all these COVID protocols, you know, it’s, it’s tough, man.

I mean, the job still got to get done and people will do it, but it’s just like, man, we’re unfortunately it’s like that Paula Abdul song, two sets for two steps back. That’s what it kind of feels like right now, you know, but we got to just keep on keeping on, you know you know, there’s only so much we can control ourselves.

Unfortunately there’s stuff around us. Yeah, we just got to stay diligent and stay on it and you know, that’s all we can do.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. I feel that. And just, you know, I haven’t really stopped taking my mask. I started to do it for a while. I was like, okay, how do I feel about this? I’m like, okay. At some point we’re going to have to get back to normal.

And then now it’s like, nah, I’m just put it back on. Just, just leave it, wash my hands, do go the whole 20 seconds and spraying everything. Just like, at least we’re at least we’re got it at this point. At least now we understand like, okay, this is, this is just 20, 20 all over again. So just keep going.

Jon Lee Brody: [00:04:00] Yeah.

And the good side of it is you and I are both vaccinated too. So, I mean, it’s not like last year when it was a novel coronavirus where there was no vaccines, there was no, there was no information on anything. Yeah. And that’s, it’s a small silver lining. It doesn’t alleviate any of like the anxiety. Right.

Then it comes with this new Delta area, but at least we got to keep perspective and know like, well, at least we have some. We really, we don’t still know what it is, but at least those of us that are vaccinated, it’s going to know that we’re vaccinated.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. Yeah. And we’ll see how the industry holds up with this next round and how long productions continued to go, because it just feels like, okay, well I only, I mean, I heard Disney’s now requiring all their employees to be vaccinated, which is good.

You know, I think those are, those are the protocols. When you start putting in place, then it’s going to become a solid, like the unions are going to be the other half. It was like, are they let them do that? So that would be, not be a confusing.

Jon Lee Brody: Yeah. And I, and I would, I would say to them, you know, anyone who’s like, be like, oh, that’s [00:05:00] not fair for Disney to do that.

I, my counter argument to that is, well, once you sign that con. You are under company policy. So if that’s their company policy, you want to get your paycheck and that’s what you gotta do, you know? And also in my opinion, that’s just the better thing to do. But people have their own ways. People have their opinions about certain matters, and that is what it is.

But if you’re talking particularly about movie studios and they’re enforcing that policy, they have every right to do so, and I fully support it.

Masami Moriya: about it. But anyways, I just want to chat about that. It just feels like, you know, w w we, I think my podcasts started avoiding the talk around COVID stuff.

Cause it was just exhausting. But now that feels like it’s a little we’re in a different space. So yeah, we talking to grow,

Jon Lee Brody: we got low-key variants in the Delta variant.

Masami Moriya: All right, man. Well, I would love for you to introduce yourself to the audience. And I want people to know who you are a little bit more with your, where you’re calling from, where you grew up. Maybe a little bit. Yeah, let people know.

Jon Lee Brody: Yeah. So I’m John Lee, Brody filmmaker, [00:06:00] corgi lover. That’s kind of how I introduce myself, always.

I’m in Los Angeles, California, not far from you. I think we’re probably, we probably in neighboring parts of the, of town. I’m guessing, so that’s, that’s kind of the funny thing about it is I probably could have just come over or you could have just come over here and I could have set up microphones.

You know, I, I grew up in Palatine, Illinois, which is a Northwest suburb of Chicago. So usually I just say I’m from Chicago. Cause it’s easier because if I say Palatine, I gotta, I gotta explain what that is. But that’s where I grew up. Very, very white suburb. We’ll get into that when we deep dive. But yeah man, and now I’m like I’m in, I’m in LA doing the filmmaking thing and really leaning into stuff like what you’re doing in terms of, you know, raising awareness, being like a true ally and also an accomplished.

Getting our voices out there as Asian artists and just Asian-Americans in general, not just people in the entertainment industry, but Asian Americans in general, I’ve leaned very heavily into that, especially the past year. And part of that was [00:07:00] because like, I’d met you all through social media and I’m just hearing you talk about things in a way that I never really thought about, you know, it was a really cool, cool thing for me and just hearing other people talk about things as well.

So so yeah, that, that’s, that’s kind of the longest short of it. I mean, there’s a whole story to it, but I know we’re going to deep dive into kind of what that is and a little bit, so I’ll just leave it at that for now.

Masami Moriya: Yeah, man. Thank you. And so for audience, I have construction going on right now. It’s kind of super loud today, so I apologize, but all this on and off, so maybe we’ll be able to zone in.

Jon Lee Brody: Well, the city of LA should apologize now. So I mean, let’s just be real now. Oh

Masami Moriya: man. It’s just been, been a morning. Well, yeah, man, like, you’ve been, you’ve been talking about it for a couple of years now and you know, seeing some growth, I feel like you’ve been in the industry longer than I have, especially within the Hollywood space in more production stuff than I have.

So I’m really looking forward to hearing, you know, more perspectives of, you know, how it, how does it change? What’s your, what’s your opinion on where it’s looking at now and what you’re seeing in the future. And you know, [00:08:00] what’s, what’s, what’s going to be changing in the Asian American entertainment space because I feel like we feel like we’re going in the right direction.

Do you feel like the same?

Jon Lee Brody: Yeah, there has been progress. I mean, we’re not where we want to be because you know, really as much as all the studios that want to say, oh, we’re being inclusive, we’re being diverse, but we get the numbers every year from the DGA. When we talk about I’m talking to in particular about directors, still 6% of TV directors are Asian, only 6%, you know, forties, almost half of the directors on television are still white.

So if you’re going to tell us you’re being included. Well, I’m going to call bullshit because these numbers don’t lie. And I know y’all studios. Exactly. Y’all love analytics about whatever the fuck. So, but you don’t like it when it works against you. So that’s something to think about in terms of that, but they love to hide behind that fact by going, oh, the number of Asian American directors has gone up like 50% because maybe they had two last year and now they have four, you know, it’s like, they’re very tricky about how they try to word it, but they don’t understand.

[00:09:00] Or maybe they don’t anticipate that someone like yourself or myself, we’re going to look deeper into those numbers and go, hold on. Let’s, let’s break this down here. You’re saying you’ve increased by 50% in terms of Asian directors. Well, let’s look at the actual numbers. Oh, you’ve only had X amount, so that’s really not a lot.

So quit patting yourself on the back. Like you’re Matt Damon, you know, who has been doing that lately with his whole shit, but that’s a whole other topic. But we are, you know, to answer your question, we have made progress because when you really look at the trajectory. And the battles that Asian artists have had to have an Asian Americans in general, to be fair in this country, there has been progress.

Now, slow progress is still progress. That’s what I had to remind myself, but that’s also a reminder. We have to stay on it. Like we want to, you know, we know we should be a lot further than where we are now, but we also had to focus on what’s in front of us. What can we do in front of us right here in this moment?

And then once we get to that next step, we deal with that, like have an eye on where we want to be, but also the a hundred percent focus has to be where are we right now? [00:10:00] And what can we do right now?

Masami Moriya: Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot. That’s, you know, I see you see Twitter and Facebook. There’s always like a daily post of something new, which I feel like has almost never happened.

Which I, which is incredible. I, I do worry that some of it’s performative, I think there’s a, there’s a, there’s definitely a level of it. I would love to just. That instead of things getting green-lit or things just like making the trades, like actually coming out. So I feel like a lot of the things will get greenlit, but then it’ll take what, 10, 20 years to get out.

So it’s like, well, I see a lot of new projects being headed, but then it becomes, okay, so which ones are going to stick and when are they going to become? Cause I think that’s, that’s the, that’s the finish line, right? That actually gets released in that it could, it can go so many different ways of not working out somebody dropping off creative differences.

I mean, we just heard the, as a Chung was, is not, [00:11:00] not directing or show running that show anymore. Yeah. Quote unquote scheduling. So who knows what that could be? So I hope that things just keep continuing to grow and manifest

Jon Lee Brody: into those things. Absolutely. We got to keep making noise because right now I feel like studios and networks are feeling that pressure because it, we are talking about it and there is stuff and there’s, there’s real shit in the news.

I mean, March 16th still hurts a lot, man. When I think about Atlanta in March, that’s still fucking hurts just to say it out loud. They know that. So they’re not completely stupid over there, but you know, we gotta keep making noise about it and let them understand that we’re here and we’re not going away and we’re going to keep fighting for this.

Cause whether y’all like it or not. So either start listening and work with us or we’ll figure something else out. Like, I mean, can you imagine if every single Asian artists that fuck the system, we’re going to make our own thing, you know, that’s, that’s where I really respect Tyler. You know, because he really did create his own thing.

Like he created his own bubble, his own [00:12:00] studio. I don’t know all the ins and outs of who he is as a person. I never met the man. You know, I, I admittedly have not seen all his films, but the fact that he did this and he created his own hub, I think that’s really cool. And he’s making the things that he wants to make, where as creators, we do have that power, but an individual can only do so much, you know, you really have to have like a collective coming together.

But if we really did that, and you think about all, a lot of there’s a lot of talented Asian artists and Asians in general in this world that aren’t in the spotlight shot, like shown on them. I mean, there’s the Henry Golding’s Daniel. They came to see movie. They get the headlines, the Aquafina’s and everybody, and studios love to make an example out of them going, Hey, look at us.

See, we got Simo, look at, look, look seamless on the cover of empire magazine. We’re not racist. Like, ah, but let’s go back literally over a hundred years, you kind of are that doesn’t solve everything. You know? So I feel like those sorts of announcements in the trades, going back to what you’re [00:13:00] talking about, that’s almost like the magician’s assistant.

Like, Hey, look over here while we’re doing the real shit over here. And that’s just how, and like, people can disagree with me all they want. That’s totally fine. But when you really look at the history of Asians in cinema and when they like, they love the canonized, Bruce Lee, they love Bruce Lee a lot more after he passed away.

Well, let’s just be real now, like after Bruce Lee passed away, he became mythologized and then Hollywood could capitalize on that. The mythology of Bruce Lee. But when he was around in here doing his thing, you know, it really wasn’t the case. And I think the kind of the fantasy we feed ourselves. Had he lived on to see, enter the dragon, be a massive success, that things would have been smooth sailing.

I really honestly think that to some degree there would be, but he would still be fighting a lot of battles and a lot of bullshit. Had he still lived on with enter the dragon? I think, I think if anything, there still would have been people trying to sabotage him and take them down this, that whole crab in a barrel, you know, sorta [00:14:00] thing.

And. So it’s, like I said, we just gotta keep making noise, man. And and this is a, this is a great way to do it. And when I say this is a great way to do it, this being this.

Masami Moriya: Yeah, no, you’ve been, you’ve got a huge career and background of like acting, directing, writing, and, you know, on tons of different products in various categories and John Aras and I even you know, studios and places.

But I did read one of your scripts and, you know, I’m very, I loved it. I enjoyed it. I think something like that should be made. What has been like the most frustrating part of not being, to make those types of films and make the stories that you want.

Jon Lee Brody: Well, I appreciate the kudos on the script, man.

I also read yours too, that you’ve talked about a little bit and your script is fucking dope too, so that shouldn’t need to be made. So I’m just going to put that out there as well. Cause you know, one good turn deserves another as they say the most frustrating thing is, you know, so with anybody listening, what David’s talking about is my script 1992, which is about the 1992 [00:15:00] LA riots, but told from the perspective mainly from Korean Americans and also African-Americans, but the main through line is, Korean-Americans and what they went through during what’s known as psycho to Koreans, which means four to nine and Korean signal symbolizing, April 29th, 1992.

Of course. So the story, this goes back till almost, I mean, this is a 10 year journey for me, but the first two, three years was just a research. I was talking to families that were there. I was doing ride along as a police officers and talking to black families, Korean families, white families, Hispanic family, People don’t realize there is a huge Hispanic community in Koreatown, especially during the nineties, but you know, the mainstream media loves the portrayed as blacks versus Korean, which there was, there was truth to that, but Hispanic suffered just as much as the Korean communities did during Saigu and the black community.

So the first part of it was research. And then there was a point around 20 15, 20 16, where I had an investor interested and I pitched him the whole thing. [00:16:00] He committed two, $3 million to the project until he tried to full pull this fucking bait and switch on me and going, okay, I have some thoughts, which anyone out there, anytime you have somebody who’s not really a creative who, but wants to be say, I have some thoughts.

I always brace myself with them like, okay, what’s he going to say? And he’s like, you know, I’ve been doing little research on my own and I just like, I don’t know. Like, I feel like there hasn’t been a successful movie like this with an Asian lead. I think we’re better off. He basically wanted me to cast a white dude as the lead so that the white dude was going to be this white savior who falls in love with a black girl in south central.

I was like, yeah, but I was like, I told you, I looked at him in the face. I said, I fucking told you what this was, man. And you said, okay, you said, that sounds great. Those were your words, not mine. Like you said that, it sounds great. You were on board and now you want to pull this shit. He’s like, well, I’m just looking out for the best of the project.

So in like, this is what I is like in this. He was basically telling me it’s [00:17:00] it’s this way or no, not at all. And without hesitation, I said, we’ll go fuck yourself up. And there’s silence in this room. He’s like waiting for him to say, just kidding. And I’m like, no, I’m serious, man. Like I told you, you knew what this was.

I explained it very clearly what my goal was in terms of the story and also what this could do for the. ’cause this is before crazy rich Asians. This is before his son is also the star before those movies came out. You know, so there really wasn’t a precedent of something like a crazy rich Asians that I could point to in terms of a financial success.

And the funny thing is I didn’t really have huge clout back then. Not that I have huge cloud now, but I really was still kind of in the middle of my journey during that time. So really it’s to tell this money, man, go fuck yourself. When I look back, I’m like, oh, I guess I was a little crazy to do that.

But it’s what I believe, man. And I have no regrets for that because you know, had I gone through with that one, I would have regretted that. And I’m not someone who believes in regrets. I believe in the choice. [00:18:00] Do we make are the choices we’re meant to make? And we’re supposed to learn from those because the moment you go into your past and try to change things, we have to understand that something else has to change.

If you do that, like we sell this fantasy to ourselves that, oh, if I did this, then things. But you got acknowledged that something would change something else that came from that lesson. Wouldn’t be there. Had you made a different choice. So the project kind of got shelved for a little bit because, you know, and Al I needed time to process that, you know, it probably took me a year to even be able to look at that script again.

Cause I was just so deflated and cause it was supposed to be coming out in 2017 for the 25th anniversary of Saigu and but the nice thing was that Justin Chon releases movie goop in 2017. And as much as I pardon me, was like, man, not that it should have been me, but like him and I should have had movies together that year.

But the fact that he did it, I was like, word up brother. I don’t know Justin, but I respect the shit out of him for getting it done and he’s killing it right now. You know, he’s slowly and [00:19:00] quietly doing his thing as a filmmaker and doing really cool shit. So so, so yeah, so basically we’re at a point now where I’m looking to revive it, I’m running into the same problems though.

You would think with all this. Of inclusion and equality. And people include in Asians being on the cover of magazines and, you know, showing cheese coming out in September, you would think they would jump on this. The thing is they jump on the pitch because they love the idea that something like this would look great in deadline, but what they don’t want is they don’t want me to direct it.

They don’t want me to be like one of the headline creators because they want one of their guys. And this was presented me three times already, where we love the script. We love this. We think you’re great. But you know, you haven’t directed a feature yet. So like you, how about this person? And I was like, no, I was like, I don’t even know who that person is.

And one, you, just, one of the guys you suggested was a white dude. Like again, we’re running into the same problem. Another company told me the same thing, but said, oh, don’t worry. We won’t cast. We won’t get a light dude to direct. We’ll get, we’ll get this person who was a black director whom [00:20:00] I won’t name because I don’t need to name him.

Cause he probably doesn’t even know they mentioned them in this meeting. So it’s. And he’s somebody. I do respect he’s. He has a, he’s had a long career, but it’s, I told him like this, isn’t his story to tell, you know, it’s like, it’s going to change and they’re trying to sell me on this whole thing. And what I’ve come to realize is Hollywood loves to appear to be inclusive and about diversity and all that stuff.

They’re like the ultimate social media influencer. And they had the machine behind them and the PR machine behind them to help promote that image. But really when behind closed doors. And this is my experience that I’m talking about here at to anybody listening, just so I’m clear, this is my personal experience.

I know others will have different ones and you’re free to disagree, but my personal experiences, they love the idea of looking inclusive, but to actually put in the work and promote these new artists, and they’re falling into this corporate thing of, you have to get a named director. You have to get this.

I said, no, you really just [00:21:00] need a really good story. And with your PR. With the studios, having mainstream media in their back pocket, they really do control the narrative of what gets out there. I mean, the example I do is Goodwill hunting. I knew nothing. I didn’t know what that fucking movie was about when they were doing press.

All I knew is that Ben and Matt were best friends who wrote a script, sold it, got it made. And now it’s out there in theaters. I did not. I knew that he was playing a math genius. I didn’t know anything about it, but because we got that personal story of this friendship and these guys, you know, doing the thing, you’re like, I got to see this movie.

This sounds so cool. They did the same thing where Robert Rodriguez El mariachi, which isn’t a great movie. It’s a great jumpstart for him because he made it for $7,000 that was built right into the trailer. Y’all can look it up on YouTube. It’s a 23 year old. Robert Rodriguez did this and this made this film for only $7,000.

Come see it this fall and in theaters that’s like studios can do that with artists, especially Asian artists that people, the general public as a. [00:22:00] So people can get to know them and know what they’re all about. Know the grind that we’ve been put in the work we’ve been fucking putting in. People will latch onto that.

And then when the story is good, that’s a win-win for everybody creators and the studio. So it’s mind boggling to me that nobody in that room is thinking of that because they’re all talking about chasing the money. But what they don’t realize is if they follow that formula of let’s create stars, let’s build up these artists.

Let’s let, let’s make people aware. People may not have heard of John Lee Brody or Dave and Maria, but let’s make them fucking hear about these two guys. And then from there people are listening, they’re going to pay attention and we’re going to deliver a really kick ass product. We win creatively and financially, like literally everybody wins, but you know, the sad truth is Hollywood is still very much this gentleman’s club.

Good old boys. And when I say gentlemen, I mean white gentlemen and good old boys, I mean, good old white boys. That’s unfortunately what we’re still up against, but. Alluding to what we’re [00:23:00] talking about before us coming together as a collective and like you and I being buddies and like casting a wider net, at some point, they won’t be able to ignore it.

That was a long answer. I know.

Masami Moriya: No, no, I think that was better. I think that was a perfectly like, you know, guided into itself. Like even from the beginning when he said, you know, he wanted to whitewash characters. Yeah. That’s like that to me, it’s like, besides that you told him that this is the story, but to then go and whitewash it, it just feels so, like he said you had said, he had said he had done some research, but what we search, like, like who’s writing that research.

Who’s where’s it coming from the, coming from the why agents, managers, the agent stories don’t sell, or is it the fact that we don’t have enough Asian movies to have data from? Like, that’s the thing, like in social, when you have Asian humans and other Asian. Movies and shows that are indie because they never got the films.

And then we got the [00:24:00] budget to work within. So then they’re stuck with the indie label and they don’t make enough money because they don’t have enough marketing. They don’t have enough hole. So then you don’t see any box office numbers. So there’s, it means it’s so low. It’s like it’s cyclical circle that says, well, they didn’t make anything, not enough financially, so it’s not going to work, but there’s some, it’s because of the lack of money that they’re able to not only market, but the production value as well to see what stories could be told, because then you’re limited for what you have.

So then you’re limited in everything. And then when, when you said you know, others, one that had other directors and other writers and people to champion these stories, Which I see why Hollywood, what would want to do that, but then to not find, to not go to great lengths, to have other another Korean American, like, I wouldn’t even want a Japanese American to, to take over that story.

Cause it doesn’t make any sense. Like there’s something so vivid and visceral being Korean-American [00:25:00] and being doing Korea town, I would think it’s still its biggest historical moment in time besides this like beginnings right in my, my wrong

Jon Lee Brody: here. No, not at all. You know? And I live in Chicago at the time too, so I didn’t grow up in LA during Seigel during the LA riots.

But I remember my mom watching the news and you know, I’m seven years old at the time. So at the time I only cared about the Chicago bulls when a second championship. Cause it was 1992. So that’s where my focus was. But my mom watching the news cause there’s on every single state. And seeing her being really affected emotionally by it.

And obviously at the time as a seven year old, I didn’t understand. I didn’t understand why she was sad, but she was really emotional over Koreans that she never met and probably will never meet, but because she knew that she knew that pain and the fact that this was happening right in front of us too.

And that’s the crazy thing about the treatment of Asian-Americans is the bad behavior has been in front of us all along. And like, people are trying to come at us [00:26:00] now going, you know, as if this is something new, you know, I’ve heard, even people say go, oh, Asians can complain about something. And the next day it gets solved and like, oh, you may seem like that’s you, because right now it’s a hot button topic.

So certain people will act on it when it’s being called out. But we’re talking in Hollywood alone, I think 1915 was Madame butterfly. Like that was like the first kind of known the yellow face, which then when the Fu Manchu, which then, you know, this parlayed into this whole thing of breakfast at Tiffany’s John Wayne playing Gingiss.

David Karen and being half Chinese because they didn’t want Bruce Lee to be in Kung Fu you know, and it’s still in. I told people, like not only was that behavior tolerated for white people to play Asians. It was also rewarded, you know, Marlon Brando got an Oscar nom. I th I think someone can fact check me and a golden globe numb for being in yellow face in two different movies.

Linda Hunt played an Asian boy and one in the academy award. You know what I mean? Like Yule Brenner won an academy award for and I [00:27:00] respect those actors, but it’s like, don’t tell me, y’all, couldn’t find a national Asian actor to play those roles. You know what I mean? So it’s been happening right in front of us.

And I think I was shining a light on it. Like we are now, you know, you’re going to see these white executives and people who like to enable that behavior get defensive about it. Like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Like, hold on. Let’s look at this though, because like I said, in the beginning of this. Y’all love to talk about analytics.

So let’s look at some facts here that you cannot argue. So, yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy, man. Like I said, you would think that they would jump on this story, but what they want is they want the image of looking inclusive, but they don’t actually want to do the work. It’s very lazy. You know, they take everything at face value.

So they’ll look at my INDB in which I have, you know, credits on, you know, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. You know, like if I look at your INDB, I may not have many credits, but if anyone listens to this fucking podcast, I’ve listened to your clubhouse. Like everything you talk about, man, you’ve done your [00:28:00] research, you’ve done your homework and you, and you have a clear point of view on what you’re talking about, but it’s always rooted in, in those facts, but that’s because you’ve done the work to find out the truth, to know the history of what’s going on and talk to others where these executives, they don’t do that.

It’s all about what if they do. It’s like if it’s only like a Henry Golding, it’s like, okay, cool. He’s been crazy. Rich Asians. He’s done this. He’s got this many social media followers done. It’s like, ah, but this movie is supposed to be like, the guy’s not supposed to be British. Oh, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter.

As long as people are going to go see the movie, you know, it’s it’s become very lazy. And you got, I’m telling you, man, we’re I think we’re the only industry where you really can like fake it to make it, you know, to use that term because I’ve met executives and producers who I’m like, how the fuck did you get this job?

Like, how are you making the most important decisions for these like franchises when you don’t know what you’re doing? Like there’s people who work for these studios who don’t even like movies or television don’t even watch movies or TV. [00:29:00] Like they, they have no concept of what is good or bad. It’s just all very left-brained.

And you wouldn’t be able to do that anywhere else. You couldn’t do that in the field of medicine, you got to go to medical school and become an MD. You couldn’t do that in law. You gotta get a JD. You gotta, you gotta go to school for it. And then there’s, I talk about jobs like being a plumber or an electrician, people who go to trade schools that executives at these studios, like the frown upon.

Cause they didn’t go to a four year university, but at the same time I can’t go out and be a plumber or an electrician. I don’t have that skillset. And those individuals who do that, they took the time to learn that skill and that trade and are doing a very, I would say noble profession, things that people have the frown upon, but you need a skill to do that.

But our industry, for whatever reason, you know, it’s been a lot of nepotism has been a lot of, you know, you can fake your way to it. I mean, Carl Lemley and I think 1928 as a 21st birthday present gave universal studios. Then she says, well, you’re old enough to drink. I guess you’re old not to run a studio.

[00:30:00] That was it. That’s the history of our industry,

Masami Moriya: you know? Yeah. And I think that’s so telling too, cause I feel like the, the thing that they have is power, right? They have the power of the narratives. They have power over the business of it, the industry to see that even if they don’t know, even if you just take the business side, like I understand that this is a business.

And at the end of the day, you can make money and lose money to risks. It’s the risk assessments, all of that. And sometimes it’s a gamble at the time. It’s a, it’s just a way to make money from people. But at the same time, Hollywood in itself, and media just plays so much into a factor of society that it really needs to take responsibility of what it’s putting out there.

Right. I mean, that’s the thing that, who is being able to tell those stories, who, where perspectives, what you know, there’s so many different people. To come to tell stories, why is it only a certain amount of few? Why are we not trying to [00:31:00] help others gain that credibility for what they have instead of using the same people over and over again, which I get is a risk assessment to say, oh, we’re going to get more.

There’s this narrative of budget. We have a place it’s going to be easier for us to sell this because we have this person attached. But if someone’s better for the role better for the position, understood more understanding of the story or more just involved with it and just so passionate about it instead of just a job, it’s their life that should count for something that should need to count for something, because they’re going to put their whole lives into it.

And yeah, maybe they are young and they need some guidance. But just guidance not take over because that’s when it becomes your project, not the person who should be telling it. I think that’s, that’s interesting.

Jon Lee Brody: Yeah. A hundred percent man. A hundred percent. I mean, you nail the head on the, the, the nail on the head right there.

God, there’s something I was going to say. Good. But I got, so like I got to like into what you were [00:32:00] saying, cause I just got lost listening to it, but I’m sure it’ll come back to me, but yeah, them control. Oh, so what you’re talking about in terms of they’re trying to use the same people like risk assessment, risk management, which is look, I majored in accounting and finance.

So all you exactly. If you’re, I hope exactly you’re listening to this because that means you’re getting a big audience. So if you all have listened into this, I graduated with a dual degree from account accounting and finance from the university of Illinois, Urbana champagne, shout out to the fighting alumni, which the accounting program is in the top five consistently every year.

So I have that education. I don’t know everything about it, but I know enough to know how business works. Now when you’re doing the risk assessment, like these studios are, it’s all very, short-sighted, it’s all about who’s hot right now. So right now you can attest SEMA lieu to probably anything because the hype of Shanxi is so strong.

And really, I hope that thing makes a fucking $3 billion. Just shut up. These executives are a little bit, you know, it’s, once you do that, there’s very little to no argument that they can make. If they’re, if you’re making money and the, and the [00:33:00] audience loves it, that’s a very, very good forcefield. But it, but it’s all very, short-sighted they’re not thinking about the fact of, okay, this person’s hot right now, but what about a year from now?

When we released this movie? Are they still going to have that thing going on? Or what if I, God forbid that turns out they’re like a serial killer or something. I know that’s a really extreme thing, but you know, there’s risks there too, but nobody’s bringing that up. Like nobody, somebody in that room and I’m sure somebody does bring it up for all we know.

You know, if there’s someone of color in there, there’s not many Asians in those rooms. I mean, I know one of three. Asian women who helped run growth marketing for these studios. I mean, that’s it, there’s like three that I know of. And I know one of them, but somebody should be saying this person’s hot right now.

But if we get this person who was like a new talent, but has been grinding, we just haven’t seen all the work they’ve been doing. And this goes back to them being able to control the narrative or B have mainstream media, let’s build this person up. We got a whole year to build this person. I’ll put this person on people’s radar, [00:34:00] let them know what their journey is.

What’s going on here. They’re going to know from the sale of a script, through pre-production, through filling, what’s going on with this individual. And they’re going to want to follow that journey. And no matter what, at the very least that opening weekend, they’re going to be there because they have to see this movie because for a full year, that’s all they really heard about, you know?

And and like, and then when you have a really good product, then that word of mouth goes out like, Hey, you gotta see this movie, man. This thing’s dope. I want to start opening weekend. And that’s how that happens. That’s how good 100. And it didn’t hurt that. So the, the story of Goodwill hunting for anyone out there listening who isn’t totally familiar, the story we get as Ben and Matt are best friends, they wrote good will hunting together.

They, the script went out on a Monday and was sold by Thursday. Now all those things are true. Well, people don’t talk about is I believe they’re Asian was Patrick Whitesell from w William Morris endeavor. One of the most powerful agents in Hollywood among most powerful individuals in all of Hollywood, not just agents, [00:35:00] but individuals between him and Ari Emanuel, which Ari Manuel was the real RA from, you know, the Ari gold was based off of an entourage for anybody.

Kind of wondering about that. But when you have a powerful agent like WME, who they have, they can call up the studio heads to go, Hey, I got this thing for you. They’ll sell. And I think what people need to understand that selling a script is just really a small piece of that puzzle selling. This goes one thing, then you got to negotiate the deal.

And then they’re going to, people are going to have no studios can have notes, or then they got to pair you up with a production company. The production company is going to have notes. And then from there you get to take it back to the studio and see if they sign off. And if they don’t sign off, then they may go in to turn around, turn around, just means it goes back on the shelf and it kind of goes away.

But what’s missing from the narrative that Ben and Matt and everybody likes to push on. That is one, they had a very powerful agent pushing their project. When you have that and are two there are two white males who fit the standard of measure of what a handsome leading man [00:36:00] is, you know, which is white dudes.

You know, that, that I grew up thinking I wasn’t good looking because everyone that was considered good looking was a white dude. So I was like, what does that mean for people like me? It just, we were, weren’t even part of the story at all. And the other thing a good will hunting is Kevin. Who is really known for the Jane silent, Bob, you know, the view ask you verse.

He was such an instrumental part of Ben and Matt selling that script because he’s the one, when the script was about to go into turnaround, he called Miramax and said, you guys got to pick up the script and that’s how that happened. But enough about these white boys. I just thought my point is when you have, when you fit that look that supports the studio’s narrative like abandonment, those individuals are much more likely to be like made into stars and put out there, but that could be done for anybody.

If they have the work to back it up, it doesn’t matter what ethnicity you are really. But if you’re with a studio system, a studio has that power to do it. So the fact that they have that power and they don’t do it, that just goes to show [00:37:00] right on the open, the bad behavior and how they view us as artists.

They don’t really view us as human. That’s just the, that’s just, unfortunately the case, you know, that we’re viewed as like, almost like a means to an end. If she’s young, she takes off. And I hope that does everything that’s supposed to should do for SEMA and everybody involved, but that’s even a bigger win for Disney because they’re making the billions of dollars and they get to take the bragging rights and go, we had the first Asian American superhero lead.

That’s really what it’s all about. But yeah, so it’s just, it’s a wild thing. I keep, I keep using that word wild because it’s, it’s fascinating that this can happen right in front of

Masami Moriya: us. Yeah. When, as long as they don’t do Shung G and then stop. Right. I think that’s the thing it’s like, oh, we did the agent thing check.

Alright, keep moving on. More, more of the other stuff. So, I mean, I even like that I think I looked at the adventures poster the other day. I’m like, there’s two women on here. It was like, they didn’t need to do more of this. Like there’s something wrong here. I think that’s just, and I think you’re completely right.

[00:38:00] Building the hype as much as building the hype piece a long time. It takes some effort. It also, that’s what makes the. Right. I know people because of their, some just word of mouth hype, or just hearing from people, even if I look around the blue, I do know. And just people who are, I’m like, oh yeah, these people were pretty famous.

I’d talked to other people and they don’t know anything about them. And it’s because they’re at studios. So like an executive I’m like, I haven’t heard that person. I’m like, because they don’t get to, they don’t have the marketing. They, no one does the things for them. Now their agents, if they have their agents either are not putting out enough publicly or whatever, is it just not, they’re not doing it.

So I think that’s the thing you’re totally right. And that’s, it’s that marketing thing, but also that’s why I think it’s so representation within not just on the screen, not even just behind the camera, but behind the people behind the camera to say. Are you talking to behind, behind closed doors? Like I just got my manager about a month ago and he’s already [00:39:00] had my

Jon Lee Brody: Nana heard about that.

Congrats you brother. Thank you.

Masami Moriya: But he’s putting my name in, in conversations like, oh, David would be really good for, I know you don’t know him yet. He hasn’t written anything like nothing that’s been published or anything like that, but what he’s got either in his writing or just like, as a consultant for Asian things, usually talk to him.

I think that’s the key so that guy’s fighting for us. But if they’re not going to do that or they have either bigger clients or other clients that they think they can get more money out of, then just time, it’s just like, they don’t put enough effort into it. So that’s why I think you have to have really strong allies or someone who really understands you and understands the issues that you go through as an Asian person who just doesn’t get enough opportunities.

And that’s the biggest thing. And who can speak to you in a way. To you and to others in a way that you feel respected. I think that’s the biggest

Jon Lee Brody: thing to a hundred percent. And the word ally is a big one because to be an ally [00:40:00] to the cause is easy. I didn’t want to be an ally, like just be on our side and you don’t just have to be an Asian American to do it, you know, like being, but there’s also a word that I love a accomplice.

So when you’re an accomplice of the cause you’re somebody who is, you know, a little higher, I may have some clout and you’re in a position to help somebody else and bring them up. You need to be an accomplished as well. And I feel like that’s not embraced enough in general, but you know, for whatever reason, you know, I feel like in the Asian American community, we can really do that for each other.

I feel like Daniel Dae, Kim is really trying to do that. There are others, but Daniel did Kim can’t do it on his own, you know? And he just can’t, you know, there’s only so much Daniel Dae Kim can do in one day. And he really, at the end of the day, he’s got to look out for himself too, you know, but that’s what we really need to embrace.

And that’s not just, let’s bring up these writers. Let’s bring up this person. It’s all. You know, I had a really cool discussion. One day I was at Korean barbecue with a few friends and just all the other Asian dude, people just kind of talking about the industry and, you know, there’s this whole thing of, [00:41:00] there’s a lack of opportunities after you, especially for Asian women, once you reach a certain age.

So a lot of these Asian women, they want to hang on to this leading lady sort of thing. They don’t want to play the aunties. They don’t want to play the, you know, the moms or the Gomos or whatever. But I think there, there is a way where they can do that. I felt like the way Michelle Yeoh did that in crazy rich Asians, she was like the mom, but she was helping bring up the other actors too.

Cause she was kinda like Alec Guinness was on, on star wars, you know, kind of being that senior person. And I think that’s really important to have those kinds of figures. And but also with the understanding of look, I’m not going to tell anybody you have to do this, but for me personally, if I reach a point where I actually had pole in this industry and I can call executives and say, hire this person, I’m going to fuck you.

You know, like I’m going to do that because that’s the right thing to do because people have helped me out along the way. So for me to not pay it forward, I think is a huge, huge disservice to the entertainment industry as a whole, but especially to Asian-Americans because so many people are grinding and like [00:42:00] for every Aquafina, Michelle Yeoh, Daniel, Dick KMC, MULU, Kemi, golden that you hear of, there are thousands of really, really fucking talented Asian Americans that just won’t ever get that shot because they’re not viewed as marketable or bankable or whatever, cause they’re not in the machine.

But the advantage now is, you know, back in the 1980s, nineties, we would, would’ve been fucked because there was no social media. There was no YouTube, but now we have platforms like this one, your podcast and YouTube clubhouse and other apps out there we can make, and we can make noise about it. We can tell our side of the story.

And I think that’s really important for us to remember that even if the studio machine isn’t really keen on hiring. We still have the power to create. They can never take that power away from us. And we always need to remember that. I need to remember that too, because I got really fucking frustrated with how the system works.

And and going back to your, the thing about marketing. So this is, this is an interesting one for me. I don’t know if people know this and nobody’s since told me otherwise, but [00:43:00] as far as I know, I’m the first Korean American to ever direct anything for DC comics. You know, I did a show called DC universe all-star games for the DC universe app, which unfortunately is no longer, it was a casualty and the at and T purchase a Warner media.

Unfortunately. So right now the show is sitting on a shelf, but I did that, and that was my first television pilot. And a week later after we shot it, we only had one day to shoot like the whole first season. Basically it was kind of crazy. The week later we’re given the thumbs up and going, Hey, you’re going to, we’re going to air this thing.

This is in November, 2019 when we shot it, we’re going to air this thing after Harley Quinn finished. It’s it’s it’s. So February end of February, 2020, like, all right, 2020 is going to be lit and a little off about that one, but the weird thing about it is there really, wasn’t a huge marketing push.

From the morning media side, we only were announced on IGN, which is great that they, that is great for the gamer community. And that’s really who we were, that’s who our main [00:44:00] audience was going to be, who would appreciate it. But, and this is why this is the crazy thing. That’s something like deadline of variety carries so much weight.

It really doesn’t matter. But at the same time it does. Cause if you’re mentioned in deadline, all of a sudden you’re very legitimized. It really doesn’t mean fucking anything. I mean, for being honest, but had, they announced our show on deadline, which they could have done. This is one our brothers, whenever this has a lot of power and they could have carved the whole story of, they gave me a shot to do this thing.

Korean American, who had no Korean American has ever directed anything. One Korean Canadian has, may not occur. Korean Canadian named G Dean show did two episodes of legends of tomorrow. So it’s me and Dean are like the only like Korean and all the DC universe and Jim Lee, Jim Lee, who was the CCO of DC comics.

But the fact that when I would bring that up, it was often very much not talked about, you know, there’s only one interview I really did for that show. And they were the only one that even asked me about it. Cause they were aware of it. It was a Krypton shout out to Krypton [00:45:00] site for that. But the fact that that wasn’t being blown up.

And when I tell people that and they’re like, how is that not being put everywhere? I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t control that. I tell people as much as I can, but there’s only so much I can do. And there’s a fine line between me and forming and me being almost not invasive, but. I don’t know, I’m not bragging either, but it’s weird.

You can only do so much on your own. Yeah.

Masami Moriya: It’s like a humble brag. We want it. We want people to know about it. Cause it’s also really kind of important for the community, but also we’re we don’t want to like boost ourselves up because it’s just like self-serving but yeah. And I think you’re totally right.

And most people don’t know about that and if they had done it, it would have been a win-win right. More people would have viewed it. And what we’re seeing you they would have gotten a check, another check mark on the university boss, which is fine. Like fine. Let it be a check mark, but at least, at least it’s helping us.

Right. So like they could have done it. And they just decided not to what, for whether it was a conscious [00:46:00] decision or it was the merger that happened, whatever. It could have helped out everybody. And I think that’s the, that’s the, it was a little thing that people could have done. And so I think those are the things that you need to build on.

You’d ask for when you, more people thinking going in this positions in studios and saying this needs to happen because I’m sure it’s just being left on the floor. People aren’t even thinking about it. Cause they’re not Asian. That’s the thing. They’re not thinking about the queen constantly. I think about ourselves and our community every day.

Sure you do too. And everybody who’s listening, even if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re probably thinking about it at least once weekly, if not like daily. So someone in the student position, who’s not Asian, just start really thinking about agents in the same way and how, how are we going to change the industry in this way?

Not just as a commodity, not just as, oh, we have this person as a director and this story, so we’re good, but no, what’s it. What’s the social implications that this is going to put. And

Jon Lee Brody: [00:47:00] that’s the difference too. Absolutely. And you know, as we all know, art imitates life, life imitates art. So I’ve had this discussion with a lot of my white friends, you know, like they, they want me to try to explain to them that they can understand why it’s so important.

I said, well, other than the fact that just important for any individual to be properly represented, let’s just, let’s just put that. That’s the foundation of it. But I have to tell white people, there are multiple representations of white people on screen. There has been for hundreds, like a hundred years.

So boondock saints, man, everybody wants to be Irish Catholic because they made Irish Catholics look really cool. Even though these guys were murdering people, but somehow everyone thought that was cool. The Sopranos in godfather made Italian-Americans like in mobsters, But anytime Asians were on screen, it was always, we were the sidekick.

We were the joke. You know, we were like the racism thing. And what 16 candles, you know, the foreign exchange student, it was the 16 candles. Right. I’m pretty sure is the

Masami Moriya: one

Jon Lee Brody: you know what I mean? And, [00:48:00] and white people have been telling Asian stories for years. And I was talking about earlier, Marlon Brando got an Oscar nom and a golden globe known for being in yellow face. So I had to tell them when that, if your only representation, if you’re as a white person and the only representation was very negative and something very demeaning to you, but every Asian American had really good representation.

And I said to you, oh, come on, man. It’s just the movie. And I tell him how pissed off would you be? And they sit and they have no answer. I’m like, I already know your answer. You’d be really fucking pissed off. And that’s why we’re pissed off because this image of Asian American men and women has been perpetuated for literally over a hundred years, And we’re still fighting to have realistic portrayals of us in the media and in movies.

And it’s still a fight to this day. I mean, it took us 1 92 years to have Steve, you know, Stephen Young gets a Oscar nomination, took us 92 years to have an act, an Asian actor get a best actor nomination at the academy [00:49:00] awards. I want everybody to think about that. I mean, 92 years, that’s almost a century that it took and y’all want to say you’re inclusive.

Well, fuck your inclusiveness. That’s not inclusive. That’s fucking bullshit. Like that’s, that’s what that is. And I would say, I’m sorry for cursing, but you know what I mean? I’m not sorry for cursing. That’s the thing that I think people who don’t understand our fight for representation need to realize, and this is, this is targeted towards Caucasians because they’ve grown accustomed to, they ha there’s been portrayals of white in many different facets over the years.

Good, bad, ugly. All of it. We’ve mostly just had the ugly and the bad, you know, we’ve had had some good ones. You know, but even then, even with Bruce Lee, being the cultural icon, he is, I think if we lived in the seventies, we would know that it wasn’t what it is. Now we can analyze them. Now he’s a legend now.

But back then he had to leave Hollywood, go to Hong Kong and do his own thing. And then once they saw he was making money, local comes calling Warner brothers and says, let’s do a [00:50:00] co-production, you know? So basically they love to make money off his name and everything because they realized he was going to do it without them, you know?

And and that goes back to, we have as creators, more controlled. And we’d like to think we may not have the control of like Greenlight through a studio system have hundreds of millions of dollars. But you know, we, we have the control to work on our craft, which is what I’ve been doing, because there’s, there’s a big misconception that if you haven’t done, if it’s not on your mind to be, if it’s not this, then you’re completely new, but they don’t take into account.

Then maybe we’ve done our homework. Maybe we’ve done some research, maybe. The mentor by awesome people who are showing us the ropes along the way before we get called up. Because, you know, for all of you out there for every member of Tom Brady was a backup quarterback, a six round draft pick at one point, but what did he do?

He put in the work and did his thing. And when his number was called, he was ready and the rest is history. So that’s what we do, you know, but when they only look at things at face value, what credits we have, how many followers we have [00:51:00] on social media, they’re not getting the story. I mean, it’s just like college admissions, just because somebody has a 4.0 GPA and a perfect sat does not mean they’re automatically going to be a good student or just a good worker in the field they’re studying.

It just means they did well in that, in that regard. So like I said, it’s a very lazy way of doing things. Everything’s face value, but if they took a pause and as she got to know these creators, cause all these meetings I told you about where they want to have another director, like they won’t even take the time to really talk to me and get to know me.

It’s really like through like an email going, oh, well what about this? And I said, hold on, let’s have a conversation first. And if at the end of that, you don’t think I’m your guy. I’m not your guy, but at least have that conversation, but they’re not even willing to do that, which that’s a huge, huge mistake on their part, but also an example of why the system is so broken because they’re not doing the work, they’re not doing the research.

They’re really just going for these quick fixes that are really just very short-sighted. It’s like putting a bandaid on a deep wound, [00:52:00] like that may do a little bit for now, but in the long run, if you don’t do something about that wound, it’s going to get infected. It’s going to do all this nasty shit.

And you know that that’s, that’s the machine though. They, you know, that’s why these reboots they’re can be hit or miss, because if you don’t have so many behind those reboots who really understands what it was in the first place and really have a really good story. That’s why these reboots don’t, you know, they miss the mark.

I mean, I haven’t seen snake eyes, but I’m guessing whoever was in charge was not really a fan of GI Joe, you know, because if they were, they wouldn’t have missed the mark. Yeah.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. They do the same thing with the, all the live action enemies that they’re doing. Right. So they just where they just announced Pokemon on Netflix.

I was like, that’s going to be cool, but they’re also gonna fuck it up.

Jon Lee Brody: I’m gonna fuck that out bad. Cause

Masami Moriya: we’re gonna run and their older, older generation that’s totally cool. But I grew up with it. Like that was my every day. I still have poker balls in my room. Just like hanging around. [00:53:00] I’ve got the Pokemon cards.

Like that’s the thing, like people who were invested into those, into those IPS or even just the platforms of what those things are, are gonna be, give it, give it the love, get, understand what there is going to need. And so same with Asian films and Asian stories. The Asians are going to know what their story needs, right?

Not just a coverup, not even when you get on set, there’s going to be a thing here. I think there that could just make all the difference. Not only just to the production or the story, but just to the actors to be able to, I dunno, embody that moment. And it feels seen, or like make the change or they even have a suggestion.

Like we saw in the whole Kim’s convenience stuff. They might have a suggestion that actually not changes the story, but makes it more like authentic makes it more, makes it something that’s there. And if a director who was wanting to just like, oh no, no, it’s just for the, the visual don’t do that. Or it’s, it’s, [00:54:00] it’s a, no, it doesn’t make any sense, like, but it makes sense to us and people are going to see it either gonna call you out for it or gonna appreciate you did it.

Right. So which one. I think that’s a, it’s a big difference. And so, yeah, you’re totally right, man. I feel, yeah, this is getting a new, a new world of things. And I think as long as we keep holding our power, holding our stances, don’t just take the money and do a whitewash thing. Like that’s where we we hold our power.

Jon Lee Brody: It’s really important. Absolutely. You know, and I saw kind of in our pre interview questionnaire that, that kind of sent over shout out to Kenna your producer strong agent leads. I got to get them to throw that in there. I remember one of years, cause I have a very strong athletic background. And I really like this question of how did my athletic background really supplement what I do as a filmmaker.

And really it’s like, when you look at filmmaking as a whole, it really is a team sport. You know, you show me one person that’s actually done it all by themselves. I mean, Robert Rodriguez is probably the closest, but really, but Rob [00:55:00] Rodriguez also, wasn’t an actors. He had to have somebody in front of his camera to make his movie.

You can’t just shoot nothing. I break it down like this. I’m going to use the nineties bulls as an example. So Phil Jackson was the coach of the bulls in the nineties. It’s Phil. Jackson’s like the director on a set. So he’s the director. And he’s got his assistant coaches, which is like your ads, your production designers, all the people filling in those blanks to inform the head coach of, Hey, this is what’s going on.

And the head coach ultimately ton, it takes that information and decides when and where to use it. The Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan is the number one, your call sheets. So that’s your George Clooney’s or Brad Pitt’s whoever’s, you know, I’m naming those two because those are the most recognizable names.

And then above, but above the coach is the GM. So that was Jerry Kraus. That’s like your production company. Whoever’s running that one. They’re going to have some say in terms of what’s going to go on, they’re going to have some insight into what’s going on. Some have more than others. Some have less than others.

Some directors like Phil Jackson later in his career had that GM kind of say like a Steven Spielberg does now where Stephen very much has a say in everything. [00:56:00] That’s going to go on his movie, but even above the. You got the owner of the team, Jerry Reinsdorf, which that’s like the studio. So that’s really the controlling hand of everything.

A lot of times those producers like the Jerry Krause’s get all the heat and sometimes rightfully so. But we got to understand that somebody at a studio, when we see a bad idea or some bad behavior, and they blame one person or for like a creative thing, we got to understand that a studio exec signed off on this.

So, I mean, there’s one, as we want to shit on certain movies out there got to understand that there was somebody in a suit, in an office who doesn’t even watch fucking movies. Somebody approved that, or somebody made a really stupid suggestion. And that’s what got in there. Not always, but we had to take into account that it’s not just the directors or the actors.

Now directors do get a lot of the credit sometimes, you know, unfairly too much and unfairly too much of the blame. If it doesn’t go. Well, same thing with, you’re the number one on the call sheet. If the bull was lost, it was automatically Michael Jordan’s fault. But Michael like, and you [00:57:00] can say, oh, Michael scored 44 points, but they still.

They’re still going to put the blame on them, you know? And so that the, so that team sports mentality really has helped me because that understanding of I can’t do it on my own. I know we need each other to do this thing. You know, you can clearly tell when there’s movies, when there are certain actors just kind of looking out for their own performance, as opposed to let’s actually, let’s actually have a dialogue here.

Let’s talk, man. Let’s, let’s run the line, let’s do this thing. Let’s make this thing really, really good. But you can, you can tell like why some movies you can tell they’re just protecting their own performances, their own brand, so they can come off looking as good as they want to look and make sure they get the cash, the check that they want to cash.

But I always took very much a team sports approach. And as director, even though technically I’m the one who has to like, had the final say of this is what we’re doing. I’m always going to throw it to the room and go, what do you think? And and I think creators, if you’re a showrunner director or whoever out there.

You know, listen to [00:58:00] those ideas. You don’t have to agree with it. You don’t have to take that idea, but just know that if you do, even if somebody at craft services says, try this and it ends up being a great fucking idea, guests, you gets the credit, you not the person that crafty. So I think everyone needs to realize that, you know, put the ego aside and know that we’re here to a basketball team is here to win.

We’re here to win. Whether I score 48 points or not ready to win. So if I’m going to make a film, we’re going to make this thing awesome. So if that means I’m taking suggestions from everywhere, if I still got to decide which one to use, let’s fucking do that. It’s a collaboration man. But also on top of that, you know, I was at a very competitive nature as an athlete, you know?

And there’s still some of that here in entertainment. You can’t really use that here, cause it’s not a direct competition with you. Like in basketball, it’s more linear, you know, you got to guard this person. You’ve got to score against this person to play against this team where I don’t like to take that approach here because I really do think we all should just be collectively to.

But I do have that competitiveness. When, [00:59:00] you know, when a studio tells me I’m not studio approved to get a TV directing gig, which I’ve been trying to do for five years, DC universe also games aside, you know, me trying to get into the broadcast networks stuff. I’m still running through that whole thing of, oh, you’re not, but you’re not never approved.

You’ve got to talk to this person, this person, this person, but it’s like, like what? It’s like the McDonald’s drive through speaker, like the speakers here, but the windows right there. I’m like, why can’t I just talk to you? Well, I’d have to talk to here, you know? And it just, just doesn’t make sense, but, but the competitiveness for sure.

And, you know, I always had to remember that, you know I think the number is less than 2% of high school football players go on to play division one football. So I guess there’s one of the two. I mean, I was, you know, I don’t bring it up a lot. Cause there was a past life and that another Korean dude on my high school football team, shout out to sing y’all bro.

Rural chiropractic. If you’re in Chicago, just a little quicker, if you need a chiropractic adjustment, go to RO chiropractic, nice little ad, read there, but sing up. [01:00:00] And I both went to division one schools and we’re both Korean dudes. So for us to be of the less than 2%, you know, I always had to remember that because I remember how many people told me how unlikely that was, how hard it was, how there are no Asians in the NFL, even though debt when was playing for the Dallas Cowboys, but nobody even knew about them.

I always remember that because if I can be one of the, less than 2% there, I can be one of the 6% of TV directors. It’s just a matter of getting in front of these people. So the athletic background definitely helps, but mainly because I do take a team sports mentality of let’s do this thing together, we all have the same goal.

Well, I want to make a really good episode of telecom. Or really good feature film or even a really good commercial. We’re all here for the same thing. So I think we got to wreck. We got to remember that everybody on set, there’s going to be times you’re frustrated late hours, really tired that I think that’s on a director, a leader like myself to go, Hey guys, remember like, we’re still here.

Remember [01:01:00] this is the goal. And let’s, let’s stay on par and let’s do this thing, you know, but let’s do it together because if we all started acting like a bunch of individuals, it will not work, you know? Yeah,

Masami Moriya: I really appreciate that, that team, the teams spirit here, because I think that’s the thing that we also need, not even on a production set, but just as community, right.

Even if, if I don’t get a gig and someone else did good, good mate, I wasn’t the right person or they’re the right person for, and like, congrats, you did it, man. Like you did a girl like that, whatever it is, you, you, we have to champion each other for these things. Now I don’t think we shouldn’t not hold people critical.

We can say like, okay man, that was a little good for you, but you know, you can do better, whatever it is. Cause I think that’s, if we only. If we only give pets on backs that doesn’t improve anything, you just continues and perpetuates whatever they’re already doing, instead of like, okay, you could do better here.

Like need, we can own, we [01:02:00] can, everybody can use feedback for everything I give you back all the time. Okay. I can change that and I can move that around. And that’s in this, the team sport of it. And when you’re, when, when I can offer somebody else like, oh, this person is also really great at something that, even something that I can do, but this person is also really good at take a look at them too.

It might be, you know, going against my chances of getting this job or whatever it is. But if that person is better for the position between us two, then that person’s better. I shouldn’t get it just because I got it first. Or you heard of me first. That just means that I was lucky. But if this person’s really good for it, that’s, that’s, what’s better for the project at the end of the day.


Jon Lee Brody: I actually did that once. I don’t know if at any, I’m not going to take any possessory credit of this, but. A couple of years, maybe three, four years ago, my manager at the time had messaged me saying, Hey, the producers are fresh off the boat. When I meet with you for this role. And I’ve looked at it and it was like a Taiwanese, you know, accent roll.

And I was like like, I don’t feel right doing this cause I don’t not Taiwanese. I don’t, I don’t like speaking [01:03:00] with the accent. Like I would do it if it was a Korean accent, because I could be a little more authentic there, but I didn’t feel right about it. I said, I don’t want to go in for this. It’s going to waste people’s time.

I feel. But I said tell casting. And this is before Kim’s convenience even came to Netflix. I said, tell them to look at this dude, Sima Lou. Cause I just met Simo through a friend of mine and we had been talking a little dialogue back and forth. Now. I don’t know if that actually led. Cause he ended up getting the job on that episode.

I’m not going to take credit for it. But I do remember I said, Hey, you should tell casting. Look at this person. And my manager was like, really? I was like, yeah. I said, because if I’m not going to do this, I know this dude, like he’s putting in the work and he’s he just got to LA and he’s trying to network and do this.

You know, unless like for all I knew he probably already got an audition call for it anyway, but I felt like he was the one I thought of, I said, I felt like SEMA could do this just because I knew what he was doing at Kim’s convenience. And I felt like his sort of range, especially in the comedic realm was going to fit really well with fresh off the boat.

And it should have gone to someone like him who [01:04:00] was kind of rising as way out now he’s a totally different stratosphere. But but I just remember, I love saying that I love being able to suggest others like, Hey, well how about Christopher, Sean? How about this person? You know? And they look at me like, I’m crazy.

I’m like, no, this is what it should be. I know when I’m not right for a part, like I used to not, I used to know that always, but I would still try to go do it. And it came to a point where I don’t think I’m right for this, but I think this person might be so take a look at them and if they do great, if they don’t, it is what it is.

But, but yeah, that, that, bro, I forgot about that too, because I remember I emailed my manager back when I tell them to look at this guy, see loo like they may not know who he is, but trust me, I think he’s the right guy. Just based on what I’ve seen of his work. And and sure enough, a few weeks later in French on the boat, there he is.

Masami Moriya: And that’s the solidarity part of it too. Right. Even if, you know, besides the fact that you shared another name, but I think that’s a part of Hollywood that is so ignorant of our community so that they don’t know who they don’t know. You just, unless someone puts their name in and we’re the [01:05:00] people who are looking out for who’s on their rise, who’s doing what?

Or I should keep my honest person. I only have, I see someone, I saw someone on Instagram, like this person only has like 12, 1200 followers, but it shit’s good. So it’s really fun. I’m like this guy is going to be hot because his acting is really good and he’s consistent. And it’s, and he’s personal guy on his, on his content.

I think it’s really smart, but no one knows who he is yet. So it’s like, if you, when you share that and you share the names and share it out, we start to build not only Hollywood knows who they are, but we’re building a. A network of people to say, Hey, this is you should, you should check this out because we know this person.

You might not know them, but this, this is good. So this is good for

Jon Lee Brody: all of us. That’s the whole point. And that’s what we can do as a, as fellow artists and just fellow human beings, really? Because it’s great when you have a representation like yourself pushing you out there, but we can do that as well, because we build up connections over the years, we built, we get to know these showrunners and creators.

We can do that. [01:06:00] Now we have that power to do so. And we have the power to say yes or no to that. I always believe in if I can help put someone over, I’m going to do it. Like, that’s just the right thing to do. You know, there’s that old saying of you kids have it so easy these days. I hope we can say that to the next generation.

I hope we can say, Hey, you know what? When we were trying to do this thing, this was our battle. So don’t lose sight of that because you’re in a good position. Now you need to make it better for this next generation. Even if you have a really good now let’s make it even better. Always go for that improvement.

You know, always go for that. What I call the 0.01. You know, that that’s where you really make that difference. Can you can only get that 0.01% when you put in the work too, like there’s no shortcuts to that. So I think the, I think that’s a big key thing. You know, we, we, as creators, we gotta be there for each other and you know, you don’t have to like each other, you don’t have to paying out, but you should, we all need to respect each other and respect that we all come in with the same goal.

We’re all trying to create. We’re all trying to do the thing, you know?

Masami Moriya: Yeah. You know, as, as we start to wrap it out and we usually put this [01:07:00] question in the beginning as an intro, but I would love to know a little about your relationship with your Korean American identity. Now you’re also mixed you’re German and Jewish in Korean.

Like it’s you know, I’m also Japanese American and Germans are, were on that same spirit.

Jon Lee Brody: We have a lot of shit going on, man,

Masami Moriya: but I would love to know how. You know, how did you grapple with that identity? Or do you have a little bit time to we’re over time?

Jon Lee Brody: I, I blocked off my whole afternoon for this man. Cause I was like, if we end up pulling like the long form and do a three hour to chat I’m with it. So I make sure you’re good on time.

Cause you’re a lot busier than I am.

Masami Moriya: I was just to have a call at one 15, but I pushed it to one 30 because I want to get these last clocks. Appreciate that. But yeah. So yeah, scope. You’re green. You’re Korean-American didn’t your age, even just an Asian American identity, you know, how has that developed over the years?

I know people have different experiences, so you don’t come from Chicago and then to LA what’s that been like? What has it, has it developed? Has it changed or has it, has this been a constant

Jon Lee Brody: for your yourself? That’s a really great question, man. And I’m really [01:08:00] glad you asked that because I’ve really leaning more into my Korean American identity, especially recently, if I’m being honest, when I grew up, I grew up in a very white suburban town.

I mean, shout out to Palatine, Illinois. I got a lot of great memories there from high school, all that stuff, but it was a very white suburban. And I didn’t even know I was really Asian until somebody pointed it out. I mean, back then in the eighties and nineties, you were just Chinese. If you looked at Asia and you were Chinese, then if I tell them, are you trying, these are Japanese, I’m Korean.

Well, what’s that like, I think that’s a king of the hill episode where he’s like, are you Chinese or Japanese? He goes, I’m from Laos. He’s like, so are you Chinese or Japanese? You know, it’s like, it’s like, man, that’s fucked up. But it’s also very, very, very, very accurate what’s going on. But if I’m being honest, man, I almost felt like I couldn’t, I didn’t have an understanding of it.

First of all, I think as kids it’s really tough for us to really know who we are because our lives are based on what our parents tell us, what our teachers are telling us, [01:09:00] what our coaches are telling us. We’re not really given a chance to really be on our own and figure out who we are. You know, even when I got to college, it was still professors, coaches when I was playing college football, you know, For the most part, I almost felt like I had to hide the age.

Like I couldn’t, I didn’t know what it meant to really be Korean, but all I knew is I didn’t want to stand out for that reason because I just wanted to fit in. I didn’t want to be the person like, oh, here comes the Asian guy here comes the whatever, you know, even though that would happen once in a while, I remember the first episode y’all did, I was strong Asian lead.

You talked about how there are certain skill sets other people could have, like, you could have Daniel Lewis doing the crane kick, but if you and I do it, it’s like, oh, well you’re Asian. Of course you’re going to karate. You know, it’s like those certain things that still take work to get good at, but it gets thrown back in our face because of our ethnicity.

Or if I got an, a, on a math test that I studied for mind, you, I’m not naturally good at math. I just figure out what to do. Well, he’s Asian. Of course he got an a in math. I’m like, what did the F what the fuck does that mean, man? So I almost done [01:10:00] myself down in that regard. I almost didn’t want to get all A’s because I didn’t want to fit that what their expectation was and be like, oh, you’re Asian.

So you got to do this, you know, I didn’t really fully embrace it as a kid, if I’m being honest and I, that it wasn’t mean I was ashamed. It’s just, I was more so afraid of just standing out for what I felt would have been the wrong reason. I didn’t like that it was being used against me. I didn’t like that.

What is something I should be proud of? And something I should take full ownership of was being stripped away because of what others were saying because of their perception of, because they were trying to get me to fit some sort of expectation what they think an Asian American is. And this goes for high school college, through the entertainment industry, there’s still an expectation.

They think Asians are a certain way just like with the accent, because there’s been hundreds of years of this going on. You’ll still meet people that like, oh wow, you speak English really well. And I’m like you don’t

like it. That’s my response to that bullshit. You know? But over [01:11:00] the years, man, especially the more you realize. Comparing yourself to others is a really a dead end because you’re comparing yourself to the image of somebody or what story that deadline or variety or empire is putting out there. You’re only getting part of the story.

They’re putting out a certain portion of that narrative. You don’t really have the full story, but they’re pulling out the parts that make you feel like you’re insignificant because you’re not on the magazine cover like Henry Golden. You’re seeing Lulu. They want us to feel like we’re now worth a damn, but that’s not the case.

Just, they just happened to be in a position where they’re being promoted by a studio, but really I’ve just leaned into a man. It’s just really, you know, the studio machine is going to think what they think, but at the end of the day, if you know, when I retire from this business, I want to make sure I take with me my full identity.

And the only way to do that is really take ownership of who I am now, even though I have Caucasian blood Korean blood, you know, you don’t look at me and think that, so, and I’ve really just identify I’m Korean and. You [01:12:00] know, if you want to know more where my last name comes from, I’ll tell you, but I’m Korean American.

And I’m very proud of that, you know, to be able to say it out loud, because if I would have said that in high school would have been cool for me individually, but I would have been ridiculed to death by my peers, because it would always happen. I remember during basketball practice, once I was killing motherfuckers on the court and the coach said, Hey, Brody, you’re playing like an All-American today.

And someone yelled out don’t you mean an all Asian coach? And I’m like, and I, what did I, I could, what could I do then? There was no other Asian person on the team, so no one’s going to stick up for me. So at that point, unfortunately I had to be kind of the goal on get along guy. I just had to laugh it off and pretend it was cool because at that point in high school, as you know, it’s very important to be cool.

And the cool kids are going to be usually the white kids. Cause it’s all white people, right? Not that I have anything against those. I don’t call the grudge against anybody. I’m just stating facts. If somebody from my high school is listening and you think that you may have been one of those people, you probably were [01:13:00] just, no, I don’t hold a grudge, but I’m just pointing out the facts and, you know, and that’s something I’m very open to talking about.

And so the fact that I could acknowledge that, that I felt like I had to hide my Asian identity, even, even in Hollywood. Like, you know, I just felt like I couldn’t be as out there with it because somebody was going to try to tear it down. And now I know people will try to tear it down, try to ridicule us.

If I know martial arts, like, look, I know martial arts because I studied it. It has nothing to do with it. Believe me, I’ve met Asian-Americans who don’t know any more. And that’s not their obligation to do so. I’ve met Asian-Americans who were not good in math or science. Can we, it’s not an obligation.

It’s like, it’s like that joke in Romeo must die. When Aliyah rest in power as asking gently, is it true? All you guys know Kung Fu and he’s like, oh yeah, it’s a state law. I don’t know if you remember that when it’s a great joke that I only caught on to in later years. But to really answer your question, man, I’ve really come to terms and really proud of my [01:14:00] Korean heritage and the more I’ve learned about the history of it and also history of Asian Americans in general.

I mean, the episode you had last week, you talked about what’s her OMI. SACA the first non-white player in the NBA in 1947. The same year Jackie Robinson came into baseball, but nobody toss Paul wat moussaka. You know, he only played three games, but also people need to remember 1947, you’re coming off of world war II, Pearl Harbor.

They’re not going to put a Japanese American. You know, I don’t know what to do his skillset was, but if he was good enough to make the New York Knicks in 1947, he could have had a longer career. You know? So, I mean, that’s that part of history that’s being kind of erased and not even talked about. And to me, uncovering those truths and doing more research is really cool, man.

I feel, I feel more empowered with my identity. The more I lean into it, because like I said, for a long time, I kind of ran from it because I just didn’t want to be different. But now it’s like, I’m just me. If that’s different, that’s one person’s perspective. You know that [01:15:00] that’s not unilaterally going to be the case.

And I hope others listening. If you’re a younger generation or same age as me know that there’s always going to be somebody that will not understand, they won’t understand your ethnicity. They won’t understand why you’re proud to be who you are. They won’t understand why you have the ambitions you have.

They don’t need to, it’s not our job to really explain it. If they want to learn, we can explain it. But I feel great kind of joy. And it’s very liberating too, to know that I own this. And there’s nothing that Hollywood could ever do to take that away. You know, they could blacklist see from studios and not ever hire me.

Great. But I at least get the walkway, my identity. And that’s something that can never take from it.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. I, a hundred percent feel that man, like growing up same way. It’s like, why didn’t you one get along, go along to get along and trying to get, even I heard a, another podcast and David so’s podcasts.

Like we had Lunchables. I didn’t fucking love Lunchables, but everybody else had them so I can eat cold pizza, [01:16:00] rectangle

Jon Lee Brody: pizza, bro, all that shit.

Masami Moriya: And you go, we want to buy lunch at the cafeteria. It’s shit food. But at least you feel like you could buy and you feel like you’re having a hot meal. And I would just you’d go with it and then you don’t want to bring out that Asian-ness.

Cause if you, if you pointed out, they’ll point it out and they’re not going to make, it’s not going to be a fun point out. It’s going to always be, oh, look at the Asian kid. Or like, how is literally my friend, my friends, quote, unquote friends and say, oh yeah, Asian kid. Or he called me Asian kid or you know, chatting to kid when all that kind of stuff and like, and I just have to like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I’m, I’m the Asian, but like, that’s not cool. And so we did that cause to get along and I think that’s what I need to Hollywood to change is that when I point out that I’m Asian, that you don’t make fun of it. And you point out to it, you say, tell me more, tell me more about why you choose to identify as Asian.

I don’t see any white Americans. They might say I’m American, but I’m American too. I don’t see them saying [01:17:00] I’m. And he just like, that’s the thing? What, what are we holding on to? I think that’s what some people would just fear that because you’re different and you have to talk about it is why we have to talk about it because no one else

Jon Lee Brody: knows about it.

Yeah. And that, that, that, that really brings out something where, what does it really mean to be American? Like we’ve been told, like it’s been acquainted with being Caucasian, but really we’re being fed this certain history and this certain narrative, but really to be an American by definition is you are a citizen of the United States of America, which you and I both are.

So we are as American as anybody here, you know? And I think there was a study out there where people were, did you hear about this of Lucy, Lou and Kate Winslet thing? Did you hear about that or not that one, there was a, some sociological study of they were serving who’s more American and they also Kate Winslet, even though she’s a hundred years, it’s like, you know, so that P for those out there who see.

Oh, I may not think that as like, you may not [01:18:00] think white equals American, but there are plenty of people on this planet and in this country, I think that, so we need to flip that script and change the narrative and know that we control that narrative. You know, liver, like I said, white people told our stories for a long time, you know?

And they, they not, well, you know, like example dragging the Bruce Lee story direct by one of the biggest hacks ever. I don’t care if he hears this. I hope he does. Rob Cohen. One of the worst directors cried, ever go through the studio system, but because he was part of the good old boys and you see all these things, I’m in the news.

Now, these allegations, when they’re part of those groups, they get to enable their own bad behavior, you know? And like for so long, that’s been Hollywood. This bad behavior has been in front of us for literally over a century. And I think people really need to take sight of that. This isn’t anything recent.

And when anybody says don’t bring race into it, I said, Were you all about racing? The moment Christopher Columbus got lost, let’s be real. He got lost and can’t get here by accident and then started killing off the indigenous y’all by racing into it before we did. And [01:19:00] what we’re doing is we’re just really taking ownership of what’s rightfully ours, but really rightfully to anybody who is a citizen here in the U S that’s really what it is.

Masami Moriya: Yeah. Holding our own, keeping our identities and not letting it be assimilated and calling us all of that. I feel. Yeah. Well, man, it’s been really good to hear you from you and get along chat with you. We could go on for another couple of hours. I’m

Jon Lee Brody: sure. Probably I’ll come back anytime you need me, man.

So this could be part one of infinity. We’ll make this a recurring thing because every time I talked to you or we just text, you know, I learned something new and hopefully that’s a reciprocal thing on your end as well.

Masami Moriya: Always, man, always before we wrap up, you know, what’s, what’s next for you and

Jon Lee Brody: where can people follow you?

Well, I’m still trying to get 1992 going. So, I mean, I’m me, I’m at a crossroads now. I don’t think the traditional studio system is going to pick those up. And I’ve really just come to accept that. That’s just where we are, unfortunately. So I’m really just looking at how can I make this on my own, whether it’s a Kickstarter or whatever, I’ll, I’ll think of something and I’ll probably [01:20:00] kind of put it out there publicly.

I’ll let you know as well. Maybe we can do some sort of cross promotion there. So 92 is always gonna be my passion project. There’s a couple other things. I mean, I have a gaming channel that I created with my best friend, Freddie Prinze Jr. Called geek head. So for a slice gay kid. That’s the word ed cable with the gene front of it.

We do like gaming stuff. Gaming man, come join us sometime. We need more Asian dudes on there. Some, some cool Asian cats like yourself. So come in. I’m not the Asian

Masami Moriya: game. Not me. I haven’t played a video game in like years, 30 minutes. It’s been a couple of long time, but I would play

Jon Lee Brody: board games and know what we’ll figure something out, man.

But there’s I know you had

Masami Moriya: that settles and you had that settlers of Catan thing, which I think is super

Jon Lee Brody: interesting. So we’ll have a game night, one of these nights, man. Well, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll wait, we’ll just get together. Kind of do a casual game night and see you see if it’s your jam, but there’s always something I’m working on.

There’s an animated concept that I’m working on right now. I just talked to a show runner. I don’t want to mention any names at the moment, but it’s really going to be just kind of the Korean American experience, but from two different perspectives, just [01:21:00] because, just because I was a Korean American in my high school, there was others, but they may not have seen it the same way.

I think that’s important that people tend to think, you know, when some people like Sima, Lulu are out there making statements, that’s not necessarily a unilateral statement for all these. It’s very true. A lot of common denominators, but Simi can only speak on his experiences. That’s really all he can do.

Now. He’s a very smart dude. He’s very educated when he talks, but it’s only really his experiences. And I think it’s important that even though we may share an ethnicity or share a title of Asian-American, that all of our experiences are very, very unique. And I think that’s really fucking cool, man, because you and I are both Asian-Americans, but we see things through a different lens.

We end up meeting in the middle, but I like hearing those perspectives. And I think doing that through an animated show would be really cool. So that’s something I’m working on. There’s always something there’s always something I’m looking to do. I’m still knocking on doors of DC comics and Warner brothers television.

Come on, you guys, you haven’t, I’ve been knocking on all his doors for five years and you still haven’t [01:22:00] hired me to do an episode of television, but you know, but I won’t bring that up. Like I just did, but I’ve really, and more than anything, just talking to individuals like yourself, man, just like, let’s keep this, let’s keep this message going because really what we’re doing here, I think.

Getting this collective it’s bigger than anything in the entertainment industry. Like this is something that really can make waves. And that really is my biggest passion right now is, you know, learning more about myself, Korean background, but also learning more about others. That’s really my greatest purpose at the moment.

Masami Moriya: Oh man, you said grabbed us up perfectly. Thank you. Just thanks for just being you and doing, you know, fighting for it and really sticking true to yourself. So in the, I appreciate

Jon Lee Brody: that. I appreciate you all you a real one, David, you, you know that, right? So I’m just reminding you. So you’re a good dude and I can’t wait for the next conversation and some more collaborations.


Masami Moriya: good, buddy. All right, man. Thanks again so much. And you know, take care and stay safe out there and wash your

Jon Lee Brody: hands. I got, I got my pure out right here. [01:23:00] Right buddy. I’ll talk to you

Masami Moriya: later.

Jon Lee Brody: Sounds good brother.

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